"But You Don't Look Autistic!" How Should You Respond?

Welcome to the Autistic Techie podcast.

I'm your host, Shea Belsky, an autistic software engineer and tech lead.

We're going to dive into the world of tech careers from a neurodivergent perspective, interviewing guests from all different corners of the industry and empowering you to be a

better self advocate.

Tell me if someone has said any of these things to you before.

You don't look autistic.

You can't have ADHD.

There's no way you have dyslexia.

These are different forms of ableism that at one point or another you're either going to experience or have experienced already.

When people are in disbelief about your or someone else's neurodiversity, it's a tough subject to address.

It's

weird to take off that mask and say, well, actually, I am autistic, or I actually have autism and ADHD, or I have dyslexia and I have something else too

Whatever the conversation looks like, you are going to find yourself talking with someone or a group of people who are in disbelief about your neurodiversity.

That might be a function of your ability to mask or obscure parts of your identity that might become more exaggerated or pronounced because of your neurodiversity.

It might be the type of setting or environment that you're in, which might be one that

folks might normally struggle with.

It could just be that this person has never met somebody like you before, and the only basis they have for comparison is people they've seen on TV, people they've read about in

a book or in a movie, and you are the first real person they've ever met

In today's episode, we're going to unpack that tough stuff.

How do you talk to somebody who is in disbelief about your neurodiversity?

What responsibility do you have to correct them and to address it?

And what do you do if someone just digs their toes in and refuses to believe you out of stubbornness?

Let's unpack that sentence for a second.

You don't look autistic.

You can't be ADHD.

There's no way you have dyslexia.

All of those sentences reject and refuse to acknowledge neurodiversity is a part of your identity.

And you are neurodivergent whether it is obvious to somebody or not.

There are points in your life in which neurodiversity might come off more obviously for you.

that might depend on your environment, your emotional state, your physical state, your mental health.

And a variety of factors that this person might have caught you at a really good time or a really bad time.

They might have just caught you at a time when you're able to mask in the world and behave in a way that people expect a neurotypical person to do.

And then when you discuss your neurodiversity with them, they are in disbelief.

as if an autistic person could not ever possibly be in this environment, or somebody who has a chronic illness could not ever do something such as what you're doing right now,

call it a race, call it a sport, call it an activity.

Individuals come into these spaces with their ideas about what a neurodivergent person should or should not be able to do.

Some of that comes from what they have experienced themselves.

Everybody knows somebody who's neurodivergent.

The question is if everybody knows that those people are neurodivergent.

What I mean by that is I know a lot of people.

I just know a lot of people in my life.

Do all of them know that I'm autistic?

Probably not.

Granted, I talk about neurodiversity and autism a lot, so I'd be surprised if most of them didn't have an understanding of it after I won't shut up about it.

But for other people where they are less vocal and less open about their neurodiversity, there would be less of a chance, less of an opportunity for someone to have that

discussion.

And so when it does come up, it is much more of a surprise more of a shock that an individual could be neurodivergent, as if they were expecting a sign, some sort of

indication based on what that neurotypical person might be expecting.

Take me for example.

I have been told to my face dozens if not hundreds of times that I don't look autistic and that I can't be autistic.

And there's a difference in those two sentences.

I want to address the idea that autism doesn't have an explicit look.

For many people, isn't the case, where autism does not have a look.

For people who have higher support needs,

who have comorbidities of other types of illnesses, and other forms of neurodiversity, it may very well be more visually and physically obvious if somebody is neurodivergent or has

a disability.

I don't want to have a blanket statement and say, autism has no look whatsoever, because I don't actually think that's true.

I think in many situations for folks who have low to medium support needs, it may not be visually obvious to an outside observer.

that somebody is autistic and assuming that those people will all share the same visual and physical traits isn't accurate.

But I do want to acknowledge that for folks who do have higher support needs, it may be more obvious, it may look a little bit clearer to an outside observer that somebody

might be neurodivergent, or have multiple different forms of neurodiversity, other disabilities, other chronic illnesses, all happening at the same time.

Let's say for the moment that you don't have any other comorbidities or disabilities.

What might lead them to believe that you do or do not look autistic?

The answer can be found in what somebody does see or hear somebody

as looking or behaving or sounding like if they were autistic.

Much of this stems from popular social media, television, movies, books, which characterizes autistic people in a situation with very classical stereotypes, specific

behaviors and patterns that become entrenched in people's understandings if that is the only thing they have an exposure to with regards to autism or neurodiversity.

An example that I bring up somewhat frequently is Sheldon from Big Bang Theory.

Big Bang Theory is a pretty popular TV show in the United States, and it contains a character, Sheldon, who many people believe to be a harmful caricature of somebody who has

autism.

Low support needs autism, but certainly a portrayal of somebody who is autistic.

They're not very socially aware.

They have repetitive patterns and behaviors.

They have the appearance of often being rude to other people, they don't quite seem to gel or fit in the rest of the world, and they're extremely intellectual and bright.

These are all very obvious stereotypes about people who are autistic that are then dialed up to 11.

If somebody doesn't know anyone else in their life who is autistic, and only has this frame of reference to go off of for their entire lives,

That might be the only reference point they have for somebody who is autistic.

And they may never meet another autistic person in their entire lives until they come upon you, who behaves in very different ways, who says different things, who is a kind person,

is socially out there, has different sets of support needs that Sheldon may have.

And when someone comes up to you and they're having a hard time reconciling these two images,

someone who they've seen on television and someone who they're seeing in real life, which one is actually the person who's autistic?

And that's where someone could be prompted to say, you don't look autistic because you don't match the image of autism that I have in my head.

Another example, you may have ADHD and you may know somebody else who has watched a lot of How I Met Your Mother.

Barney on that show is a caricature of people who have ADHD.

Very hyperactive, a lot of energy, tends to lose their focus and kind of darts around the space very erratically.

If somebody's reference point for ADHD is only, Barney from How I Met Your Mother and they come to you and see a different perspective of ADHD, they're going to have a hard time

putting two and two together to see, these are two different people who both have ADHD.

They just have different strengths and different sets of support needs.

It comes out differently.

They express it differently.

And that may be hard for individuals who don't have a frame of reference, who

only have the television to go off of.

Your best friend might know somebody else who is non-speaking autistic, who relies on a full-time caregiver, who maybe lives in a group home, who has a diagnosis of autism among

other disabilities.

Then they come across you, who is fully independent, maybe drives a car, maybe takes the bus.

It is hard for them to reconcile that these two individuals, both share a diagnosis of autism, could both be autistic.

Now let's say that individual knows two different people who are dyslexic, then they come up to you.

And dyslexia has different traits for different people, it comes out in different ways.

Some folks struggle more with reading, writing, spelling, math,

This individual may have a hard time saying, these two people can read just fine, or they can read well enough, why can't you read the newspaper, look at your emails the same way

that they can?

It is the struggle with reconciling the fact that there are different people with different identities, different strengths and different

support needs while sharing a similar diagnosis

It is extremely unlikely that any person who says to you, you don't look autistic or ADHD or dyslexic, means any harm I would find it shocking if they meant that as an insult

because that's almost never the case that they would mean it to be a bad thing.

It is a state of surprise and a state of insight, but not something to take personal offense by.

And it is almost never the case that they would ever mean something like that to you.

It does create an opportunity for you as an individual to help them reconcile and come to the conclusion that your neurodiversity has a different look than what they're expecting.

You might be autistic and you're out there having the time of your life at a concert in a loud space and maybe that's just where you vibe.

But you might struggle with smells, you might struggle with textures.

And that's a great thing for you to talk about with them.

If that is what they're having trouble understanding, they might come up to you and say, I didn't know you could cook.

I didn't know autistic people could cook.

People have said that to me before.

They didn't know autistic people could cook as if that was supposed to be something that I was incapable of doing.

I know a lot of autistic people who could cook.

Maybe this person just knew.

a few people who were autistic or knew one person who was autistic who could not cook or struggled with that.

That's not for me to get insulted by my cooking and don't worry, I give myself a hard time about my cooking already.

It's a teaching moment for me to talk to them and say, well yeah, I am a decent cook and I am a decent cook, but I struggle with other things as well.

If someone lacks the richness of experience with other people who are neurodivergent in their lives, that creates an opportunity for you to be kind and respectful back to them

and say, well, no, I am neurodivergent and this is why.

And you can keep it brief and respectful and move on from it.

You may find that some people don't want to move on from it, that they cannot or will not reconcile this image in their head

They might try to reduce you or make you feel small because you just don't happen to fit This autistic sized shape that they have in their mind of what an autistic person is

supposed to do.

Let's say you're on the job and this has happened to me before.

you are up there giving a presentation.

You are just going through a PowerPoint and you've been practicing for it all day and you deliver it and you do

a good job.

Maybe you could have done a little bit something better, but you did what you had to do.

Everybody's pretty happy and you got a job well done.

And somebody comes up to you and says, there's no way you're autistic and an autistic person wouldn't have to crushed that meeting back there.

And they really won't back down about it.

And maybe they're trying to say a good thing or they're trying to compliment you, but it's making you feel not great inside when they are taking a part of your identity.

your neurodiversity and almost weaponizing against you as if to say you aren't capable of doing this or you should not be capable of doing this thing, which I literally just saw

you do.

You have some choices in that moment.

You can choose to stand your ground and say, no, I've been practicing on this presentation really hard.

This is something that's really important to me and I did a great job.

You can choose to ignore them if you don't

think you can treat the situation with respect that it deserves and speak to somebody else who can maybe pull this person aside and talk to them about why that might have bothered

you so much.

Ask your manager, ask a mentor you have, ask a friend, ask somebody who can step in and help with the situation.

that person might not have meant any harm.

They might be trying to do the right thing by hyping you up and saying,

oh you're so good at this, in spite of your autism.

There's an interesting term there, in spite of your autism.

What does that mean?

When you think of the word, in spite of something that indicates autism is the reason why you didn't do a good job about this.

For me, that could have been a presentation.

Maybe I was always good at presentations and was worried and anxious and never actually thought to try.

There are situations in which my neurodiversity

can be an impediment to me being able to do something or accomplishing something in the way that I want to.

That's not a reason for other people to call that out and point at it and say, you cannot accomplish this or you cannot do this well because of your neurodiversity.

Second to that, people shouldn't feel the need to comment on it in general if you do overcome that hurdle.

and you are able to succeed in this area where you've struggled in, and that should not be in spite of conversation.

You did a really hard thing.

delivered that presentation.

You led the phone call.

ran a project.

You were a tech lead for something.

ran a really intensive report.

you should not feel as though people are allowed to comment on that or make criticism

of your neurodiversity as if to say it is the reason that you are being held back from your potential.

When you're successful in something, people should not feel as though they are empowered to call out your neurodiversity as being the reason why you couldn't do something better.

That's not for them to do.

It might be true.

You might not be good at presentations because you're afraid of the public speaking and your autism might be related to that.

That might be a perfectly valid feeling that you feel, but that should not be ammunition for somebody to deny you an opportunity.

The term in spite of your autism almost implies that people should be denied opportunities or have less opportunities to do something because of a neurodiversity, because they might

be predisposed to being bad at them and should not even be given the chance to try.

I would never have had the opportunity to lead meetings, to become a technical leader if I was not given those chances, given those opportunities.

And my autism was not part of the conversation.

I may have mentioned it to my manager to say, I want to get better at this and here's a reason why I might not be good at it right now.

I was starting from a different point at the race than other people were starting at.

And that gave my manager a reference point within which to say, okay, here's where Shea is starting and here's where he needs to go to become confident in presentations.

And then we worked on it from there.

I was never denied the opportunities to try to do something new because of my neurodiversity.

And that should never be the reason

why you would ever be denied those opportunities.

And if you ever come across somebody who would say, no, you can't do this because you're ADHD and can't sit still, that's not okay.

That is weaponizing your neurodiversity against you.

And it is more than appropriate for you to take issue with that and push back and say, why should I be denied this opportunity that other people are receiving?

What's the deal?

Neurodiversity should not be used to deny you agency, to deny you autonomy.

If there is something that you want to accomplish, that you want to try to do, you have to ask for it

You have be willing to be uncomfortable and recognize that it might not go so well the first time.

My first couple of presentations didn't go super well.

Some of them went okay, but not all of them.

But I was given the opportunities to try and to learn and for me to experience what it meant to run a simple meeting, run the standup, something really straightforward that

happens every day, run a retrospective for a project, run...

a scheduled meeting you have about a project, run a sync you have between different people.

You might try to run those meetings and it might go well.

It might not, but you need to be given the opportunities to try those things.

You may need to ask for them from your manager.

You may need to seek them out to find them.

And sometimes they may simply end up in your lap and say, this is yours now.

But if you come

across a situation where somebody is saying, no you can't do this, or I don't want you to do this.

That's not okay.

It's not.

Your neurodiversity should not be used to deny you something.

Because if you would never learn how to do something and you never learn what wrong is, you'll never become good at it.

You'll never become better at it.

I didn't wake up one day and say, wow, I know how to run standup perfectly and I will never run a bad standup in my life ever.

And I have run bad standups before, even at this point in my career.

And I'm going to run a bad standup at some point in the future.

But if I had never run a bad standup, I would not know what a good standup looked like.

And that is all the more reason for you to try to run a call, to lead a customer research interview, to run standup, to run a retrospective, a postmortem.

Something that gives you, the individual, an understanding

of this is what I need to do to do better next time.

Whether neurodiversity is in the mix at all doesn't matter.

Maybe neurodiversity has nothing to do with it.

Maybe you're good at it from the first day and you can ignore all that stuff I said about being bad at running standup.

Maybe you're just naturally good at that and maybe you will always run good standup and in that case, you got it all made and you're gonna do great.

And maybe you do come across a type of meeting that

You say, I'm not super great at this.

I need to get more exposure to this and learn what it means to have this responsibility, to have this ownership over something.

And I need buyin of people around me to try to allow me to fail, to allow me to struggle.

Maybe it's not running a meeting.

Maybe it's being on call.

If you're a software engineer and have to respond after hours to system issues that might happen at any given point of day.

Someone needs to have faith in you, belief in you, that if you get paged for on-call, you're going to give it 100%, you're going to be able to respond, and you're going to be

able to figure out what's wrong and fix it.

You might not be able to fix it the first time.

That's okay.

I've had lots of on-calls where I couldn't figure it out instantly either.

But over time, I learned my code base, I learned the architecture, I learned the processes for these things.

And that comes with time.

And that all stems from somebody creating those opportunities for me, or for me seeking them out, or for being part of my job description.

The point there is that for you as a neurodivergent person to walk in a situation and have the confidence of the people around you to try something new, that is a truly powerful

feeling.

That is what you need to overcome that hurdle.

When somebody says you don't look autistic, well, what do they mean by that?

What are they expecting an autistic person to do in a situation?

Do they expect an autistic person to run an on-call?

Do they expect a dyslexic person to be able to read from a PowerPoint slide and deliver a great presentation?

Do they expect somebody who has ADHD to lead a customer interview?

What are they expecting?

How can they reconcile that with what they're seeing in front of them?

And if they are using your neurodiversity to reject your attempts to try something new, get to the bottom of that, unpack it, and push into it.

And if you are still running into resistance and still don't know what's going on, reach out to your manager, reach out to your team.

If one person is running up against you, you got a whole group of people around you who are gonna be able to support you, and they got your back.

Thanks so much for listening to the Autistic Techie podcast.

If you enjoyed this and want to hear more about neurodiversity and tech careers, make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platform, social media platform, and to share our

show with your friends and family.